In conversation with pianist Seong-Jin Cho (Part III)

Seong-Jin Cho recently released his "Wanderer” album on Deutsche Grammophon (Photo credit: Christoph Köstlin / Deutsche Grammophon)

Interview: Seong-Jin Cho (Series Part III) | “I want to play the piano as Kleiber conducts an orchestra”
By Young-Jin Hur
Where Cherries Ripen
June 19, 2020

To read the full article, click here.

The present article is part of a series of interviews with Seong-Jin Cho. For the conversation preceding this article, see Part I and Part II.

I.
(Note. Seong-Jin had talked about his time in Paris.)

Young-Jin Hur (YH): Since we talked about your International Chopin Piano Competition experiences last time we met in London and because I am sure other interviewers would have asked you so much about this part of your life anyway, I won't dwell much on the Chopin Competition. However, I'd like to ask you about your personal relationship with Krystian Zimerman (Note. henceforth Zimerman), which I understand began around this time. I suspect there are some memorable and personal stories.

Seong-Jin Cho (SC): Yes.

YH: Were you in contact with Zimerman prior to the Chopin Competition?

SC: Not directly. After the Hamamatsu Competition, I worked with a Japanese agency called Japan Arts.  Because Zimerman was managed by the same agency, I ever so often heard things about him through the company. But I never had the chance to meet him in person prior to the competition.

YH: When did you meet Zimerman for the first time?

SC: It was around November 2015. He came to one of my Tokyo recitals without telling me. 

YH: So he had heard about you and was eager to meet you.

SC: It seems so. This was shortly after my winning of the Chopin Competition. Actually, right after I had played Chopin's first piano concerto at the competition and before the jury announced the winner, I received a personal email from Zimerman. 

YH: What was in the email?

SC: He wrote, "you have my friendship." He wrote this email even before I was announced as the winner. It was a dramatic moment for me. When I read the email, all my emotions burst out instantly and I cried. The competition was so exhausting and the email was a relief of a kind. I was especially moved by the fact that one of my childhood heroes had written to me. As I was reading the email, I even had flashbacks of the various difficulties I had gone through in Paris

(SC laughs)

(Note. See Part II of the interview series to read more about the difficulties SC faced while initially settling down in Paris.)

YH: When you finally met Zimerman in person, did he retain the tone of this email? In other words, did he come across as someone who is warm and encouraging?

SC: Yes, very much so. I had heard rumours that Zimerman is not an easy person due to his perfectionist personality. However, this was far from the truth when I met him in person in Tokyo and when we had meals together. 

In January soon after my November recital, I was in Tokyo again for a concert. Luckily, Zimerman was also nearby, so we got into contact. This time, he offered to show me some fun places around Tokyo (SC grins). One evening, Zimerman took me to a restaurant called Ninja (SC grins again). It's a funny place - the restaurant is designed as a cave and there are waiters that do magic tricks on you. That evening was quite something.

(Both laugh)

YH: And none of the people at the restaurant recognised both of you?

SC: I don't think so.  I followed Zimerman around all evening. After our meal, he said, "life is too short - let's save time." With this, we took a taxi and went to a tower where we could see a panoramic view of Tokyo. When we were up there, I was impressed with how well Zimerman knew the city. He could point out to various streets from the tower and recite names of all sorts of places. He had the entire city in his head.
After some time up there, he asked me, "aren't you hungry?" He then took me to a restaurant where a famously gory scene in Quentin Tarantino's film Kill Bill was filmed. This was after midnight, but we still proceeded to have sushi and sashimi with beer. We talked about all sorts of things, including a conversation about Michelangelo.

(Both laugh)

After we finished, he left for home to practice the piano.

YH: It must have been quite late!? Wasn't this after you had some drinks together?

SC: Yes, it was around 2am. We had just one glass of beer.

YH: Do you think you'll one day do something similar to a younger pianist, the way Zimerman treated you this evening?

SC: I'm not too sure I'll be able to be as nice as Zimerman has been to me (SC grins). But this evening moved me a lot. I hope I can be like this for a younger pianist in the future, who knows.

YH: I understand. When I teach students at university, what drives me to teach is a wish to bring happiness to students. I often think about how I was in their position some 5-6 years ago.

SC: I see.

YH: Have you met up with Zimerman regularly since then?

SC: No. I've met him every year and a half. Come to think of it, I met him twice in 2019. I met him in Berlin when he gave a concert there. The other time, I bumped into him in Japan. 

YH: Do you have these unusual stories whenever you meet him?

SC: No, not always. When I have life- or my career-related things to discuss, I often call him or text him. 

YH: What are some of the things you ask him?

SC: Recently, we talked about repertoire building and management selection. He's more experienced than me in these things, so I have much to learn. For example, he advised me that I should look for good human-qualities when choosing one's management.

II.

YH: Similar to your Zimerman story, were there other childhood heroes you met who left a memorable mark on you?

SC: Radu Lupu (Note. henceforth Lupu). 

YH: Can you tell me the first time you met him?

SC: In some ways, I am closer to Lupu than I am with Zimerman. In 2012, just a few months before I left for Paris and about a year after my Tchaikovsky Competition, I had a chance to play with Myung-Whun Chung in Paris. That same week, Lupu also had a concert in Paris with Claudio Abbado. I overstayed in Paris for a week to see Lupu play. At that point, Lupu was an idol of mine to the degree that I had Lupu's photograph as the background image of my phone. I also wanted to see Abbado conduct. In any case, a friend of Lupu organised a dinner party that week. Because I got into contact with that friend through one of my teachers, I was able to meet Lupu during that dinner. 

YH: It must have been quite a shock to see Lupu in person for the first time. 

SC: Yes. I was surprised to see Lupu in person, that he actually exists (SC laughs). Until then, I had only seen him through photographs. At some point during the dinner, he noticed me and I could see him come toward me. 

YH: Ah, it was he who approached you first?

SC: Yes. He opened up the conversation by saying, "I saw your Mozart concerto performance at the Tchaikovsky Competition... Bravo!"

(Both laugh)

SC: What do you say to that? I couldn't say anything. 

YH: I can imagine. 

SC: We ate just two seats from each other. I could show him that my phone's background image is a photograph of him. I actually told him that he's "my idol".

YH: What an experience the person sitting in between you two must have had!

(Both laugh)

SC: While that was a very nervous evening, it also brought me and Lupu together. Since then, I went to many of his Paris performances. He lives in Lausanne in Switzerland. I've been invited to his house a few times. 

YH: Lupu seems a mysterious figure. He rarely gives interviews and is not at all outspoken. How is he in real life - is he a nice person?

SC: Very much so. He has a great sense of humour. At the same time, he is one of the most warm-hearted people I know. His violinist wife is also a lovely person. He called me during the Chopin Competition. The competition was an incredibly nervous time for me. But once Lupu wished me good luck, my nerves were settled. 

Generally, I am grateful... to both Lupu and Zimerman. Overall, I am very lucky. Independent of my playing career, I have been able to meet amazing people and become friends with them. Lupu is someone I liked beyond imaginations and I still admire him greatly. If Zimerman is the person who initially instilled upon me a dream of becoming a pianist, Lupu continues to show me the highest point of music-making. I don't think anyone can play greater than Lupu does. It's not about the technique - he possesses this supreme musicality. Sadly, he's retired now.

YH: Indeed. I wanted to interview him around the time he retired. He never got back to me. 

SC: I'm not surprised. 

YH: Well, next time to meet Lupu, please send in some good words for me. 

SC: I doubt he will accept any interview requests.

(Both laugh)

YH: Have you received piano lessons from Lupu?

SC: I did. But I don't think he wants this to be known. 

YH: How is this?

SC: He thinks he is not a good teacher. He listened to my playing and gave me some comments. We had some wine together. Whenever I am Lausanne, he's so nice to me. 

YH: I am glad you have such wonderful friends as him.

III.

YH: You mentioned earlier that you met Lupu at a private dinner party. Do you go to these dinners often?

SC: From time to time, some sponsors organise these dinners. I started going to these dinners from around 10 years ago. In the beginning, these occasions were socially uncomfortable and awkward for me. But from a certain time, I stopped feeling this discomfort. After all, the food is really good at any of these occasions. So I found my strategy: focus on the food.

(Both laugh)

SC: In the beginning, I had no idea what I was eating. The atmosphere and everything else was too much for me to handle. I also felt the pressure to converse well. Of course, I still have to consider these things. But all in all, I'm much more relaxed at these dinners now, knowing that the food is just great.

YH: Ah. Maybe it's time that you start a food blog.

(Both laugh)

YH: When you go to these meetings, are you the only Korean there?

SC: Yes, that is mostly the case... apart from some cases in the USA. 

YH: Whenever you are in these situations, do you become more self-conscious that you are a Korean?

SC: I cannot say so. I think I am treated as another attendant, not particularly as a Korean. Of course, I lived in Korea for much of my life, so I do feel Korean. But in the context of music, I forget about my nationality; it's the same when I perform in Korea, too.

YH: I've been in Europe for around 20 years myself. I think it's a fascinating experience to live across two vastly differing cultures. Now I want to talk about Berlin. How did you end up moving to Berlin?

SC: I had always planned to move to Berlin, I just never knew when that would be. A series of events lead to my eventual moving to Berlin. 

It may sound funny, but when I first moved to Paris, I had to move houses often. This was because my neighbours often complained about my piano playing. In the end, I found a good house, but that contract had to be terminated early because the owner of the house re-married and wanted some of his new family members to move into the house I was renting. This was just a few months before the Chopin Competition. Afterwards, I moved into a high-rise apartment, where I could play the piano in peace. It was a wonderful house with Marks and Spencers just around the corner (SC grins). But not long afterwards, I received news that the owner of the house had passed away and that the daughter wanted to sell the house. One could say I had a string of bad lucks in terms of house choices in Paris.

(Both laugh)

SC: This was around 2017. If the owner of the last house had not so suddenly passed away, I would have moved to Berlin in 2018 or 2019. Given the circumstances, I moved to Berlin in 2017.

YH: You said you always wanted to move to Berlin. Why was this the case?

SC: I've travelled to various cities, but I think Berlin is a wonderful place to live in. Compared to Munich, for example, Berlin is much more international, cosmopolitan, and perhaps less conservative. For a German city, the food is good. People are lively, the air is nice, and the place is generally spacious. At the same time, it feels like a capital city. The active music scene is a bonus, the presence of the Berliner Philharmoniker and other orchestras, for example. 

YH: I also heard that many Korean musicians live in Berlin.

SC: Although that is true, I don't think that was ever a motivation for me to move to Berlin. I was attracted mainly to the city itself - this was a strong intuition. Me being in Berlin also meant that I could learn German, although I am making no progress at all on this matter.

(Both laugh)

SC: The timely death of the owner of my last Paris house shifted the gears of many things in my life 

(SC laughs). 

IV.

YH: Not long ago, you made your debut as a conductor in Tongyeong. What are some afterthoughts regarding your conducting experience?

SC: I wonder if the concert represents a simultaneous debut and retirement of my conducting career. 

(Both laugh)

YH: What do you mean?

SC: I thought to myself, "this is not my path!"

YH: Last time we spoke in London, you indeed sounded rather apprehensive toward the general prospect of orchestral conducting. 

SC: The conductor is the only musician on stage who doesn't make a sound. That didn't feel natural to me. I was grateful because the orchestral members were attentive to my requests. My conducting technique was especially a mess. I was nervous, meaning that I sometimes did not keep up with the tempo. I also had a difficult time using both of my arms to conduct. To quickly switch between conducting and piano-playing was also a challenge. 

Given my experience of playing the Mozart and Chopin concertos as a soloist, perhaps I can conduct these works again one day in slightly better shape. However, my conducting at the piano won't be the norm, as is the case with Michiko Uchida, for example. 

YH: Can you elaborate more on your communication with the orchestral members?

SC: The orchestral members were very kind to me and made my life easy. I think these experienced players could see that a youngster was giving it a go. So whenever I made a mistake, they didn't make a big issue out of it. Due to their help, all went well in the end. I can say I also gained a great deal of respect toward conductors, generally. 

I learned that good conducting is not only about being musical - it's also about effectively communicating musical ideas. Overall, I felt that to be a great conductor, one needs a certain disposition.

YH: Do you think this disposition is something you can learn over the years?

SC: I guess when you spend enough time on something, you will achieve what you want. But as a pianist, I am not sure I will spend too much time learning how to conduct. 

YH: Do you mean that you find it more meaningful to play the piano than to conduct?

SC: Yes.

YH: How did you prepare for this occasion? Did someone help you?

SC: Yes. But that person told me to never ever reveal who taught me. The person's too embarrassed, given how badly I've conducted.

(Both laugh)

YH: I will better prepare my conducting lessons for you next time. 

(Both laugh)

YH: The works you've conducted are works you've also recorded.

SC: Yes, yes. 

YH: Was this intentional? Did you rediscover some musical expressions while conducting these works?

SC: The fact that I studio-recorded Mozart's 20th concerto and Chopin's 1st concerto previously means that I know the works very well. The deep knowledge of these works helped me a lot to conduct them. I already had the entire orchestral scores in my head before the rehearsals. 

YH: Did you have an orchestral sound in mind before you started rehearsing?

SC: While I cannot say I tried out anything strikingly novel, there were some things I had in mind. However, my lack of conducting abilities and experiences sometimes did not allow me to extract some specific shapes I was hoping to express. I admit I did try very hard, though. 

YH: You conducted an orchestra with reduced size. What this also part of your plans?

SC: It was the Tongyeong Festival Orchestra - the orchestra is neither a full orchestra nor a chamber orchestra. I did not want to play Mozart with a full orchestra. When playing Chopin, a chamber orchestra would be possible but the sound would be too weak. So when playing Chopin, it was decided to add a few more cellos, double basses, and violins. I think the size of the orchestra was just about right. 

YH: Talking of conducting, you've stated in a recent interview that you admire the works of conductor Carlos Kleiber. Can you tell me more about your admiration for this figure?

SC: I think Carlos Kleiber is one of the greatest conductors in history. His Beethoven recordings are incredible. I've also learned about him while viewing some of his rehearsal videos. He had a remarkable personality. His technique produced a flexible sound, through which he was able to communicate unique ideas but ones that did not entirely deviate from traditions. I want to play the piano as Kleiber conducts an orchestra. 

YH: I assume you've acquainted him through YouTube?

SC: Yes. I watched his Fledermaus overture rehearsals. 

YH: I'd now like to go beyond music. Do you have a hobby that many people might be surprised to know about?

SC: An unexpected hobby, you mean?

(SC grins)

YH: Yes.

[To be continued in Part IV]